+
+> Well, I think it's pretty stunning what you've done here. Seems very
+> complete and well thought out. I have not read the code in great detail
+> yet.
+>
+> Just using po files is an approach I've never seen tried with a wiki. I
+> suspect it will work better for some wikis than others. For wikis that
+> just want translations that match the master language as closely as
+> possible and don't wander off and diverge, it seems perfect. (But what happens
+> if someone edits the Discussion page of a translated page?)
+>
+> Please keep me posted, when you get closer to having all issues solved
+> and ready for merging I can do a review and hopefully help with the
+> security items you listed. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> Thanks a lot for your quick review, it's reassuring to hear such nice words
+>> from you. I did not want to design and write a full translation system, when
+>> tools such as gettext/po4a already have all the needed functionality, for cases
+>> where the master/slave languages paradigm fits.
+>> Integrating these tools into ikiwiki plugin system was a pleasure.
+>>
+>> I'll tell you when I'm ready for merging, but in the meantime,
+>> I'd like you to review the changes I did to the core (3 added hooks).
+>> Can you please do this? If not, I'll go on and hope I'm not going to far in
+>> the wrong direction.
+>>
+>>> Sure.. I'm not completly happy with any of the hooks since they're very
+>>> special purpose, and also since `run_hooks` is not the best interface
+>>> for a hook that modifies a variable, where only the last hook run will
+>>> actually do anything. It might be better to just wrap
+>>> `targetpage`, `bestlink`, and `beautify_urlpath`. But, I noticed
+>>> the other day that such wrappers around exported functions are only visible by
+>>> plugins loaded after the plugin that defines them.
+>>>
+>>> Update: Take a look at the new "Function overriding" section of
+>>> [[plugins/write]]. I think you can just inject wrappers about a few ikiwiki
+>>> functions, rather than adding hooks. The `inject` function is pretty
+>>> insane^Wlow level, but seems to work great. --[[Joey]]
+>>>
+>>>> Thanks a lot, it seems to be a nice interface for what I was trying to achieve.
+>>>> I may be forced to wait two long weeks before I have a chance to confirm
+>>>> this. Stay tuned. --[[intrigeri]]
+>>>>
+>>>>> I've updated the plugin to use `inject`. It is now fully self-contained,
+>>>>> and does not modify the core anymore. --[[intrigeri]]
+>>
+>> The Discussion pages issue is something I am not sure about yet. But I will
+>> probably decide that "slave" pages, being only translations, don't deserve
+>> a discussion page: the discussion should happen in the language in which the
+>> pages are written for real, which is the "master" one. --[[intrigeri]]
+>>
+>> I think that's a good decision, you don't want to translate discussion,
+>> and if the discussion page turns out multilingual, well, se la vi. ;-)
+>>
+>> Relatedly, what happens if a translated page has a broken link, and you
+>> click on it to edit it? Seems you'd first have to create a master page
+>> and could only then translate it, right? I wonder if this will be clear
+>> though to the user.
+>>
+>>> Right: a broken link points to the URL that allows to create
+>>> a page that can either be a new master page or a non-translatable
+>>> page, depending on `po_translatable_pages` value. The best
+>>> solution I can thing of is to use [[plugins/edittemplate]] to
+>>> insert something like "Warning: this is a master page, that must
+>>> be written in $MASTER_LANGUAGE" into newly created master pages,
+>>> and maybe another warning message on newly created
+>>> non-translatable pages. It seems quite doable to me, but in order
+>>> to avoid breaking existing functionality, it implies to hack a bit
+>>> [[plugins/edittemplate]] so that multiple templates can be
+>>> inserted at page creation time. [[--intrigeri]]
+>>
+>> And also, is there any way to start a translation of a page into a new
+>> lanauge using the web interface?
+>>
+>>> When a new language is added to `po_slave_languages`, a rebuild is
+>>> triggered, and all missing PO files are created and checked into
+>>> VCS. An unpriviledged wiki user can not add a new language to
+>>> `po_slave_languages`, though. One could think of adding the needed
+>>> interface to translate a page into a yet-unsupported slave
+>>> language, and this would automagically add this new language to
+>>> `po_slave_languages`. It would probably be useful in some
+>>> usecases, but I'm not comfortable with letting unpriviledged wiki
+>>> users change the wiki configuration as a side effect of their
+>>> actions; if this were to be implemented, special care would be
+>>> needed. [[--intrigeri]]
+>>>
+>>>> Actually I meant into any of the currently supported languages.
+>>>> I guess that if the template modification is made, it will list those
+>>>> languages on the page, and if a translation to a language is missing,
+>>>> the link will allow creating it?
+>>>>
+>>>>> Any translation page always exist for every supported slave
+>>>>> language, even if no string at all have been translated yet.
+>>>>> This implies the po plugin is especially friendly to people who
+>>>>> prefer reading in their native language if available, but don't
+>>>>> mind reading in English else.
+>>>>>
+>>>>> While I'm at it, there is a remaining issue that needs to be
+>>>>> sorted out: how painful it could be for non-English speakers
+>>>>> (assuming the master language is English) to be perfectly able
+>>>>> to navigate between translation pages supposed to be written in
+>>>>> their own language, when their translation level is most
+>>>>> often low.
+>>>>>
+>>>>> (It is currently easy to display this status on the translation
+>>>>> page itself, but then it's too late, and how frustrating to load
+>>>>> a page just to realize it's actually not translated enough for
+>>>>> you. The "other languages" loop also allows displaying this
+>>>>> information, but it is generally not the primary
+>>>>> navigation tool.)
+>>>>>
+>>>>> IMHO, this is actually a social problem (i.e. it's no use adding
+>>>>> a language to the supported slave ones if you don't have the
+>>>>> manpower to actually do the translations), that can't be fully
+>>>>> solved by technical solutions, but I can think of some hacks
+>>>>> that would limit the negative impact: a given translation's
+>>>>> status (currently = percent translated) could be displayed next
+>>>>> to the link that leads to it; a color code could as well be used
+>>>>> ("just" a matter of adding a CSS id or class to the links,
+>>>>> depending on this variable). As there is already work to be done
+>>>>> to have the links text generation more customizable through
+>>>>> plugins, I could do both at the same time if we consider this
+>>>>> matter to be important enough. --[[intrigeri]]
+
+>> FWIW, I'm tracking your po branch in ikiwiki master git in the po
+>> branch. One thing I'd like to try in there is setting up a translated
+>> basewiki, which seems like it should be pretty easy to do, and would be
+>> a great demo! --[[Joey]]
+>>
+>>> I've merged your changes into my own branch, and made great
+>>> progress on the various todo items. Please note my repository
+>>> location has changed a few days ago, my user page was updated
+>>> accordingly, but I forgot to update this page at the same time.
+>>> Hoping it's not too complicated to relocated an existing remote...
+>>> (never done that, I'm a Git beginner as well as a Perl
+>>> newbie) --[[intrigeri]]
+>>>>
+>>>> Just a matter of editing .git/config, thanks for the heads up.
+>>>>>
+>>>>> Joey, please have a look at my branch, your help would be really
+>>>>> welcome for the security research, as I'm almost done with what
+>>>>> I am able to do myself in this area. --[[intrigeri]]
+>>>>>>
+>>>>>> I came up with a patch for the WrapI18N issue --[[Joey]]
+
+I've set this plugin development aside for a while. I will be back and
+finish it at some point in the first quarter of 2009. --[[intrigeri]]
sipb-www / ikiwiki.git / blobdiff